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This week on the New Music Business, our guest is Jordan Anderson who is the new talent buyer for the legendary Troubadour in West Hollywood.
03:38 Why the Troubadour special and how Jordan got the gig
11:34 The role of a marketing manager and director
13:23 The significance of the Troubadour’s size and philosophy of who to book
16:57 The state of the live music industry
21:45 Underplays and working directly with artists
26:37 Keeping your pitch emails short and sweet
31:41 Structuring shows deals
34:23 The reality of being an independent venue
36:55 Investigating emerging artists’ streaming and social numbers
41:09 How the Troubadour markets their shows
45:52 Does the Troubadour have any outside promoters?
47:04 Predatory pay-to-play venues in LA
54:06 Band merch cuts
57:37 What’s on the horizon
1:01:41 Final question
Edited and mixed by Maxton Hunter
Music by Brassroots District
Produced by the team at Ari’s Take
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Ari: Jordan Anderson, welcome to the show.
Jordan: Hi, how’s it going?
Ari: Hi, good. Um, so thi I’m, I’m very excited for, for this conversation. Um, the Troubadour, I mean, the Troubadour needs no introduction. It is probably one of the most famous venues in the world. Um, but on a personal note, like it is very meaningful to me. I have seen. Uh, countless shows. I mean, it’s gotta be 40 50 shows, something like that over the years. Uh, some of my favorite shows of all time have been at the Troubadour. I mean, like I saw fucking saw God at the, I mean, it’s just like, you know, it’s like these incredible experiences and it’s like, you know, it just keeps happening. And, you know, I think for people that don’t go to as many shows, they might, you know, have a, a magical experience at a show. One time, somewhere, whatever. And they’re like, oh, it’s that bam, that’s so awesome or whatever, or, you know, and I, I, by going to so many shows and playing so many shows myself, like I, you know, venues gotta feel, you know, there’s so much that goes into making a show, uh, special now. Why is the Troubadour so special?
Jordan: Well, it’s the wood walls. Sorry. No. Okay. um, I mean, honestly, like everyone knows, I mean, most people know who stuck foot in there. Right. We have Elton John who started there. You have mm-hmm the Laurel canyon sound artist who started there, and then you have the eighties, um, with the hair metal. Um, and then everything that’s come since. And I think you feel that right when you walk in the. And then you look at the walls at the memorabilia, that’s on the walls and then you’re quickly reminding you’re like, holy shit. Mm, wow. And I, even, when I walk into that front bar, I find something new almost every time and I’m there most nights so, yeah, it’s pretty crazy. And ironically, I had never seen a show with the Tribu door before I took the job. What
Ari: Oh my God. Isn’t that like a prerequisite to booking the room? I mean, was the, I, you know, I know Amy Mago. Who was your predecessor? Uh, yeah. I, I know her real well and, and, you know, um, tell me about that taking over because, um, you know, I, I know it was probably, it was, gosh, it must have been what over COVID I think, I, I think she said that it was a year. Okay. Oh, a year ago. Yeah. So you’re celebrating one year. Congratulations.
Jordan: Yeah, I just did. So I’m at a year and a month yesterday. Yeah. Um, I started tech. I technically announced I started, I guess August 13th, 2021. Okay. Um, but yeah. So how that went down was Evan bright? Who’s a good friend of mine. Mm-hmm um, is really good friends. Amy mm-hmm and Evan called me one day. And I, I remember I had just got done working out and I was in Nashville. I moved here from Nashville. Was there eight years and I was actively actually looking to go back to AC entertainment, live nation, which is where I was pre pandemic. Um, okay. And he called me and he said, I know you got the dog in the yard and the girlfriend at the house, but would you ever move to LA to book the trigger door? And I was like, what? . And I was like, I mean, I’ll take that call. I mean, that’s so unexpected. Um, moving to LA is not ever something that was on my radar, to be honest. Um, wow. I thought I was in Nashville and that was my place and that was almost gonna be it maybe. Um, but yeah, LA just really was never on my radar. Yeah, I took the call, talked to Christine, talked to Amy. Um, I actually is the manager. Christine is the manager or general manager and owner. Um, her father, um, is the one who bought it from Doug Weston. Got it in the nineties. Cool. Um, but yeah, so. I actually turned it down at first because they needed someone here in two weeks and I was like, wow, there’s no way I was like, I’m sorry. There’s no way. And then Christine, I guess, ended up talking to Amy and she was, Amy was able to stick around a little longer. Cool. Um, and Christine called me back and she was like, If we can get you out here and onboard, and I let you, you know, if you’re able to work from Nashville for a month or however long you need, can we make this work? Mm. I was like, okay. It sounds like it’s meant to be . Um, and yeah, that’s what I did. I came out here.
Ari: How about the everybody scene of the, uh, the girlfriend and the dog to, to make the big, the, make the big move
Jordan: the dog was way more on board and he’s pretty happy out here actually. Um, yeah. Um, anyway, yeah, so. Sure met Amy, Amy and I are now good friends. I check in with her, you know, she’s on hiatus in Europe at the moment. Um, having a great time. Yeah. Hit it off with Christine and you know, it all, and it all worked out. Working out those first two months were definitely tough. Um, moving to a completely different. Part of the country taking a new job. Nobody really knows me out here. Didn’t know me personally, you know, so yeah, it was a lot. And coming out of COVID where I really didn’t work that much. So getting back into the groove of being on email every day,
Ari: Oh, my gosh. It was tough. I, I imagine. And what were you doing? You said before that you were at live nation or? I thought I read like live nation EEG, I guess it’s all kind of a conglomerate.
Jordan: Yeah, more so I had taken a job as a buyer with AC entertainment in January of 2020. Got bought fully by live nation or fully acquired, um, in January of 2020 as well. Mm-hmm um, so technically I look worked for live nation. Um, I didn’t get to see any of my shows play off. So I was furloughed in may of 2020, and then officially laid off in January of 21. So I was doing some freelance booking and marketing in Nashville. And then again, actively trying to get my job back and having those conversations before I got this call.
Ari: So you had done some talent buying, uh, previously, uh, that was kinda cause I know you’d worked at a few. Well, yeah. Tell me, tell me a little bit.
Jordan: I’m from Mississippi. TULO Elvis’ birthplace, which, you know, works for what’s going on right now around that. Right. Um, I went to the university of Georgia and was in the music business program there with David Barbie. Um, I worked for widespread panic when I was in college and that’s kind of what got me into, I wanna be in life, you know, mm-hmm, , um, seeing that band go and do their thing, um, I really respect them and what they do, but how they do it. Um, and then I was. Moved to Nashville after I graduated, um, not really knowing anybody and was Leor Kinder’s intern at ag. Um oh, okay. Yeah. And that’s kind of what led me into, okay. I think I wanna be in this space and promoter world. Um, so I was the buying and marketing intern there and they didn’t have an opening. So I became the marketing director at marathon music works and exit in. OK. So I was a marketer before I was a buyer.
Ari: So marketing the music venue in Nashville.
Jordan: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I moved to Nashville straight outta college. Mm-hmm um, so yeah, marketer there for a few years and then went back to ag and was the marketing manager turned eventually marketing director, basically, um, with Leor Ali Harel Dustin Turner mm-hmm , um, which all of those people are now somewhere else. Um, but had an amazing time in that office. I was gonna say Leno kinda. Helped grew me a little bit into becoming a buyer. I actually booked my first show when I was still the marketer at marathon and exit in mm-hmm in 2016, it was rainbow kit and surprise before they actually took off. Cool. Um, show sold out. Um, and that really. Put that spark in me of like, oh yeah, cool. This is what I wanna do.
Ari: Tell me what a, a marketing manager marketing director does at a promotion at a, at a promoter, like a ag. Sure.
Jordan: So I was in charge of marketing, eventually all of the shows, but at first I was doing clubs and theaters and then moved into absolutely everything. So, okay. Stadiums, arenas down to the clubs. Um, and we had the Southeast. So I was doing Tennessee, Alabama, Georgia. Louisville. Um, wow. But mainly our main market was obviously Nashville.
Ari: And would you be working with, uh, the artists’ management on, uh, kind of collaborating on promoting the shows or would you primarily, did you have just your strategy of, okay. We do, you know, these ad buys, we work on. This kind of marketing or kind of step me through that. How, how do you go about marketing? Such big shows
Jordan: Totally depends on the show obviously. And your budget. Right? And then whether you’re talking to management or just the agency is kind of the artist discretion or what they prefer, right. Every. Every acts different with that. Um, sure. Most of the bigger shows, you’re just talking to the agencies and running everything through them. Mm-hmm um, but yeah, on a big show, um, I actually got to work on Elton John tour. That’s wrapping up right now. Wow, cool. Cause it started five years ago or four years. Um, yeah, so, you know, Those are no brainer, right. They’re gonna sell help. But yes, it’s kind of just making sure there’s awareness that he’s coming. So placing radio, placing TV, placing billboard, placing, you know, Snipes, whatever it may be. Um, yeah, I was in charge of that, um, and had a digital marketer work that worked under me and an assistant too. So we had a good, solid team. The significance of the Troubadour’s size and philosophy of who to book doing everything.
Ari: Awesome. So let’s, uh, kind of taking it back to the Troubadour now. Um, you know, it’s a, what a 550 cap room is that right? 500. Yeah, 500. Okay. 500 cap room. Um, so it’s a, it’s a totally different philosophy than a lot of these rooms that AEG was probably managing that, that you’re working with. I mean, I guess the exit in is, is. Similar size or what’s the, for sure.
Jordan: Yeah. It’s actually the, well at the time it was that I marketed it. It was the exact same. Cool. So you’re trying to do a lot with a little right. exactly.
Ari: I mean, mm-hmm, , you know, it’s, I, I think the Troubadour has, uh, the benefit of the legacy, the history, the name recognition, and just kind of. It’s a room that every artist wants to play and every music fan wants to go to. So I, I think you kind of have that on your side. Whereas like when I talk to other buyers or promoters at similar sized clubs, or even slightly bigger, you know, they don’t necessarily have that on their side. Like I was just speaking with Paul Bacher, um, who does Brooklyn Bowl, Philly and, uh, and Brooklyn, um, you know, and, and summer. Is much slower for them. And I mean, it’s slower across the board because you have festivals and you have, you know, uh, radius clauses where bands aren’t allowed to play venues right. Within a certain radius outside of the festival. But it seems like the Troubadour is always kicking and always doing great shows and always, you know, having shows that are, um, packed and sold out. And so I, I feel like you kind of have that going for you, but at the same time, like, I’m curious, you know, what is your philosophy when it comes to who you’re going to, to book?
Jordan: Sure. Um, you’re definitely right, but also it’s not that simple anymore. Right. Okay. Um, yeah, I think we’re still not back to being as busy as we were before. Okay. Um, so while that does happen and you do see it happen because of the name 1000%, we still have to market our shows. Um sure. Especially with the amount of traffic that’s happening right now, due to COVID and just everybody’s touring. Right. Everybody’s touring. So my philosophy at the moment is just keep it in front of people, whatever that means. We need to keep it in front of people because they will forget because they’re, you’re getting so much thrown at you, right. And you can only spend, you can only be so many places when you can only spend so much money. Right, right, right. On shows. Um, so yeah. Going back to what you said on philosophy of booking, I mean, mm-hmm, I mostly book directly with agents and yes, I’m mostly being outreach too, but I still have, we still have those slow summer months too. So I still have to sometimes do my own outreach or go find that local band that used to fill a date for me, um, in the summer, which happens, which, you know, it’s hard to say this is the standard at the trior because we’re coming. A time that just doesn’t make sense and things still feel like they don’t make sense. Um, sure. So it’s hard to say, like, this is how it works, but this is how it’s worked this year. Yeah. Um, so yeah, and every show hasn’t sold out and they don’t, and they won’t, um, I show last night they didn’t sell out. Mm-hmm , it’s still great. Still happy to have them. Yeah. But as far as like having that turnkey situation where we’re. Cranking a mountain going. I don’t think it’s the same as it was.
Ari: Um, Let’s talk about that a little bit, cuz I’m, I’m curious, uh, right. What the conversations are in the talent buying community, um, of where we’re at right now, you know, end of summer coming into fall 20, 22 mm-hmm uh, would like to think things are back to normal or starting to get back to normal, but you said they’re not. And, and do you feel like this is a new normal. or do you feel like we’re still, um, claw our way back to what hopefully will be what we were pre pandemic?
Jordan: The answer is, I’m really not sure if we’ll ever get back to how we were pre pandemic or not for a while. I mean, obviously the economy plays into that and we don’t have to go down that path, but sure. I don’t think people are drinking. Like they used to, I don’t think people are going out like they used to or staying out as late as they used to. Mm. I also think we all saw, um, our drop counts or. Where people had bought tickets for shows that were rescheduled. And ultimately they just decided not to show up. Cause that $20 was like, eh, I’d rather stay home. It’s not worth me going across town. And I have that mentality a little bit too, because you know, eight hours of sleep is nice. You know, sometimes staying on the couch just feels right. So I get that cuz I was someone and I’m getting back into it. But pre pandemic, I was going to four to five shows a week for. In Nashville, a lot easier to do that, to go to multiple shows in the night, um, et cetera. But that, I mean, it took me a second here to be like those on those days where I wasn’t already at the office and I just didn’t have to just stay or didn’t have the opportunity to stay. Yeah. When I’m coming, I’m live in, you know, echo park. And to make that 25 million that’s I’m like, damn, sometimes you just don’t wanna to do it. like, yeah, I feel that it’s just your own internal, you know, like, damn, I’d rather just sit here cause it feels better. And yeah. You know, and that’s not me taking advantage of the job or anything’s just, it’s a product of COVID and what we went through, I think, you know, and I, you know, talking to our peers about this and some people are in the same positions, they fill it too. Yeah. Um, so I knew I’m not, I’m not alone there. So I think the general public is also feeling that and I get it. Yes. Um, I, we had a show this week though that my Christine said to me, she said, this feels like what it used to, where it was Tuesday night show sold out show. Everybody stayed after. I mean, I left, I think, close to 1130 and people, the bar was still slammed. The front bar was still slammed and I haven’t seen that happen. Wow. So I think that’s a good sign, but you know, for us, cuz obviously as you know, the majority of our money is made on the floor, if not all. Yeah. Yeah. Um, so we’re having people in the room, right? So as long as we can keep the room full and engaged, we prefer it that way. Um, so I haven’t seen that Haven very often. So that was a optimistic for our fall. Our fall is absolutely. Slammed. Yeah, this is gonna be the busiest we’ve been since COVID, mm-hmm we are booked every day, but one in October at the moment, and I believe I will fill that date. Yep. Um, and basically we’re booked every day. End of September, through mid December. Wow. Incredible. Um, every single day. Yeah.
Ari: Yeah. And that feels awesome. Yeah. Yeah. Um, are you also seen with just kind of the buyer behaviors and the fan behaviors, um, a difference in when shows, uh, -sell out or, or if they sell out or when people are actually making the decision to buy tickets? Has that gotten that lead time? Gotten a lot shorter?
Jordan: I have, I’ve had this conversation a lot in the past couple weeks because it’s so unpredictable. The only genre that I. Put a blanket statement on at the moment is pop is selling. Pop is selling like crazy. Whether that’s on the front end and selling out or closing out in the last two weeks, that’s, what’s selling the most for us at the moment overall. Okay. Um, otherwise, yes, it’s mostly a back and sell at the moment. We’re mostly, you know, spending the majority of our marketing dollars on the back end. Not that that really was different to begin with. Just, you know, with such small budgets in a small club, that’s what you’re gonna do anyway, but mm-hmm for the most part, because again, it’s a product of having so much. Um, out there so many options that people are making these last minute decisions if they can, but of course, as you know, we’re the Tribu door and we get those big underplays. So those are gonna sell out, you know, immediately pretty much, no. Underplays and working directly with artists matter what.
Ari: To clarify for people that don’t know what an underplay is, um, it’s like when, uh, an act that could normally play an arena or is about to go on an arena tour or something like that, a big, a giant tour. Uh, decides to book the TruBid door as, um, kind of a fun, uh, maybe warmup show for the, the big tour or an unannounced last minute show or something, something like that.
Jordan: Right, right. Yep. Exactly. Um, or an album release or a single or they just fucking feel like it.
Ari: Yeah, I remember. One of the last shows that I saw, uh, at the Tribu door, uh, pre lockdown was the black keys. That was their underplay. It was, it was essentially their tour warmup that they had one show here. They had one show in New York, mean post COVID. You mean, you mean in may? No, this was, uh, they’ve done it twice. Yeah. Yeah. They did it twice. They did this one. Um, I, I wanna say it was like February. Wait a minute. Yeah, it was like February. 2020 or March, 2020 or something like that. Oh, wow. Yeah. You know, we just did it again. Oh, cool. I was not at that one. Yeah. Um, but right now, well, that’s the thing it’s like, it’s now all kind of like coming back is like they tried, they had that entire arena tour book that obviously got canceled over 2020. Um, and so that was, that was a fun, fun show and a fun night. Um, so you, you mentioned earlier that you primarily work with agents when booking shows, um, now with a 500. Room and something that, you know, in a town like LA, which is just bursting at the seams with local talent. Yeah. Um, some with representation, some with not, um, how do you approach kind of the local acts that. That are doing well that have draws that maybe could put bills together, something like that could fill the room. Um, how often do you work directly with artists on kind of putting those kind of shows together?
Jordan: Sure. Um, it tends to be in the seasons where we’re not super busy. Okay. Um, and I, if a, B I do read every pretty much every outreach email that comes to me. But I can typically quickly figure out is one, does this make sense for us? And does it make sense for artists two? Sure. You know, those go hand in hand, um, just by doing my due diligence and looking them up, looking at their numbers, looking, asking either asking them for their show history or going to validate what they’re telling me. They’ve done. Mm-hmm um, because look, I, I look, I, I am totally into a and R it’s it’s something. Um, I love it’s part of the reason I took this job. I wouldn’t have moved across the country for any other 500 category, most likely. Yes. Um, and, and I respect that. I respect that hustle. Um, so. If you come to, if you approach the trior and you don’t know how many tickets you can sell in LA have never played the market, or, you know, you’re averaging a hundred to 200. It doesn’t make sense. Sure. It does not make sense for us. It doesn’t make sense for you. Mm-hmm and we need to hold off. So what I encourage them to do is, Hey, we’re not there yet. Mm-hmm please go play a small room and keep me updated mm-hmm um, and report back. And when you get there, you know, let’s look at it other. I’m gonna keep you on a short list for local sport act, because I do get asked that and I do submit very weekly, you know? So there is that other side of that is, it hasn’t really happened a lot yet, but there will be like a time where I randomly have a data open where I need to try to. Fill it with local acts and build a bill. So if that’s the case and I can look at, you know, some artists that make sense to play together who are worth, you know, a hundred, 200 tickets each, then I will consider that. And, um, you know, give them a local bill as we call it, um, to come try to play the true door. Mm-hmm so far, it hasn’t happened a lot. And that is again, a product of everyone’s touring right now. So sure. You know, I. I’m more likely, and I would say majority of the buyers in the world. So that’s, I’m more likely going to talk to someone about a band who has representation that approaches me from, you know, sure. An agency mm-hmm , um, who can report show history to me or mm-hmm , you know, Hey, this is exactly what this artist is doing. We, we think this is gonna pop off here’s the stats to back it up, or here’s what we think. So. To play the room. Sure. Versus someone, you know, reaching out to me on the form Onri website.
Ari: Sure. That makes sense. So let’s talk, show history and what that means and what you like to see, uh, in a pitch email about bat.
Jordan: Sure. Um, I, I heard this conversation with Paul and I agree with what he said. Okay. I don’t want it to be complicated. I honestly don’t even want an attachment. I agree. Put it in the email short and sweet do not send me a long form email that’s full links and whatever. Okay. Tell me what you’re doing, what your plan is. If you have something upcoming, whether it’s releases or tour festivals, whatever, what your sh most important thing to me is what your show history is in my market. That’s what I wanna know. OK. Or, and if you don’t have hard ticket history yeah. Who have you supported for? Who have you toured with? Mm. Um, you know, what, what are your streaming numbers specifically in the market? If you can, if you can report that to me too, I’m probably gonna go check up on it, honestly. Mm-hmm but mm-hmm, , you know, that’s, what’s important to me and yes, I will also look at a live video too, but first and foremost, I wanna say that. I wanna see those stats for some foremost.
Ari: So in this is interesting. So, um, in the email, meaning you would like everything included, even if the email is a bit longer, whereas, uh, some people would link to let’s say like an EPK, like a one sheet, a one page on the website. You want everything embedded in the email?
Jordan: If, if you’re just gonna type me a quick note and then send the attachment. Great. I don’t wanna see a whole thing I gotta read through and then that on top, and then, you know, like again, short and sweet. So whatever that means, really? Yes. But I will say if you send that attachment and you do put, Hey, here is our history in LA. Yes. And that top part of that email that’s, that’s amazing.
Ari: Is that the most important, uh, part to you is because, you know, you have to fill the room, um, is it kind of show history? And then it’s like, oh, and by the way, we play music too. Here’s links to the music, uh, YouTube, whatever live video, what are you looking for in addition to show history, ticket sales,
Jordan: You know, I’m not discrediting either, but again, it’s like I have a T. And my, my goal is to at least break even on every show in tickets else. Right. That’s that’s my goal. Anything else on top of that? Depends on the deal. Depends on the ticket price. Um, so typically it’s around 200 to 300 tickets for us, depending on the deal. Okay. And the ticket price, you know, mm-hmm , um, I don’t really do a ticket lower than $18 in the. Okay. You’ll see a few things we do. We do wish to do it. We, we do do a showcase called with sound collective presents about once every two months. And they will have sometimes have a little lower, um, of a ticket price, but pretty much I’m not doing a ticket under 18 bucks because that’s as low as I can go sure. To break even. Sure. So that’s kind of where we’re at and then everyone’s expenses have gone up. And previously that was about, I think the lowest ticket Amy was doing. Excuse me. Mm. Was 15 pre-COVID.
Ari: Okay. Okay. Yeah. So it’s all. Yeah, inflation’s real. Um, everything’s very real, man. Yeah. no, for sure. Um, okay. So I mean, and that’s, that’s helpful. Um, but you also mentioned, um, you sometimes put on local support and you know, I think there’s a lot of artists out there that would like to be considered for local. what, what is that perfect pitch, email to you from an artist? Like how should you be approached if they wanna be local support for that?
Jordan: Um, still keeping it simple as you can. I still don’t want like a billion links from you. Yeah. But like, Hey, this is who we are. This is what we sound like. Mm-hmm , um, here’s here is a live video of us. Um, and here’s who we’ve played with before. Um, or what we’ve done, but as far as I’m not looking obviously at numbers as much there as I am, does this make sense for the bill more or less? Mm-hmm so, you know, it’s definitely. Ultimately, I’m still pitching to the headliner. It definitely comes down to their decision, but I’m filtering that out. Gotcha. For them a little bit, if I’m asked, I mean, I’m, I’m sure you’re aware of the majority of touring acts are caring support these days. Mm-hmm . Um, but this it’s probably about once, maybe every two weeks, um, I’m feeling a sports lot for somebody.
Ari: And is that because the headliner needs that local buffer in, in sales, do they ask you to find acts that can spring fifty hundred, a hundred fifty two hundred tickets that comes
Jordan: sometimes mm-hmm sometimes, sometimes it’s a show that’s doing just fine on the own, and that’s not as important as just, Hey, we want something that resounds with us and sounds good. And we’ll warm up this crowd and I get excited.
Ari: Let’s talk deals. Uh, what do your deals look like? I, um, you know, just across the board, how do you structure these?
Jordan: Sure. Um, for the most part, we are either promoter profit or door deal. So door deal. You’re getting a percentage of the door from dollar one. Okay. Um, and from every profit, you’re getting a guarantee and then you’re getting 85% after we break even. Um okay. On top, you, you, you lift, you list an expenses number, um, in that’s and we settle, we settle on real expenses. Average yeah. Expenses in our room are about three. okay. So after three K it’s a, so it’s kind of a versus deal. It’s like, you’re gonna get this guarantee versus, or, or in addition, plus it’s additional, it’s a plus it’s a plus deal. So promoter profit is a plus deal. Got it. I’ve done a couple versus, but typically here. Yeah, I’m doing door deals and mm-hmm plus deals. Yeah. And door deals. Uh, what are we talking about in terms of percent score? Depending on the ticket price. Sure. Um, it’s typically we start, uh, like the lowest I go is. Okay. Um, and that’s on the low dollar ticket, right? You mean the lowest that you would go into the lowest, what you pay? The band is 50, meaning you’re not taking any more than 50%. The trooper’s not taking any more than 50%. Okay. Gotcha. Correct. Um, and obviously with that being a 50% from dollar one, that 50% we’re getting is covering our expenses. So right. That we’re not, it’s not a expenses then 50% it’s. You’re getting 50% from dollar one from dollar one. Gotcha. Um, but that’s typically on lower ticket. In the room. So it kind of scales up from there as you raise your ticket price, I will raise that percentage alongside it.
Ari: Got it. Now you mentioned that the majority of your, uh, money comes from the bar, so is kind of, you know, that break even, and, and looking at kind of where you are going to make the numbers work in terms of ticket sales or, or that is that just kind of like, you want to cover the nut and then it’s essentially. Profit is, is bar. And then, so you can kind of like, you know, the venue needs to stay open. And so that’s kind of where that, that money comes from.
Jordan: Yeah, exactly. So obviously I’m based on the type of show it is in the crowd they’re bringing, you know, that I’m paying attention to that with what type of deal you’re getting to mm-hmm um, it is definitely, uh, related. Um, and correlated, so, okay.
Ari: Yeah. Um, cool. So, you know, the Troubadour, um, is an independent venue. It’s not owned by live nation. It’s not owned by ag. It’s not owned by golden voice. I mean, it’s hard to find an indie venue in LA these days. I mean, you know, golden voice, uh, has so many, they, they have the Roxy, they have the fauna, they have the L Ray, um, live nations, got the echo now, um, you know, As an independent venue. Um, I guess give me some of the, the pros and cons of being an independent venue. Sure.
Jordan: Um, one I’m the only Booker there’s nobody else. Um, and it is family owned and operated. So there’s the pros and cons of that, but we are very close knit group, tight group. I know everybody who works there. Um, mm-hmm and. We get to hang out every day and that’s a good time. Um, yeah, with us controlling ourselves. Yeah. There’s nobody telling us what to do, how to run the room, who to book, who to book with. Um, you know, I, I don’t have, you know, for the most part, we’re seeing this Switzerland between we have good relationships with AEG and live patient, however, they don’t come into the room. Right. But I do get to you. If an artist wants to play the Tru door, typically, if they have a tour deal with age ation, we do get to have those shows in the room as one, because I’m not seeing as necessarily a competition in that aspect. I’m not growing that artist to the next room, right? It’s your playing the Trabu door. And then you can go play with whoever you want to, after that. And I have no say or care, you know, in regards to that, um, mm-hmm, . Yeah, I think that is one of the biggest differences for me. And, and especially in this town, I mean, there’s, it’s a town that’s, you know, very competitive between those two, um, promoters and yeah. You know, Nashville was, um, it’s I feel like it’s leaning one side over the other currently, but, you know, This is the most competitive market I’ve ever been at, for sure. Mm-hmm and one of the most competitive markets that exists. So mm-hmm, , you know, it’s fun to be a part of that. It’s fun, you know, to get to be in a room where everybody actually does wanna play it. So I do have that advantage where sometimes it doesn’t matter what AEG and lation are offering. Laura wants to play the Tribu door. Um, so I get the show anyway. Yeah. Um, and it doesn’t come down to money. All the.
Ari: Cool. That’s great. I’m curious. Um, when it comes to, um, newer acts or I should say acts that maybe haven’t played the market, but are being, you know, maybe our priority to an agency or something like that. Mm-hmm um, what you do to, I guess, uh, Validate or protect yourself or, you know? Sure. Because I, I think I I’ve been hearing this a lot and I’m, I’m curious your take on this, or if you’ve seen this, um, Streaming numbers as, as we know, uh, are not always great indicators of ticket sales. Uh, I’ve heard horror stories of Spotify, darlings who are, you know, we’re talking tens of millions of streams, probably like million plus 2 million monthly listeners that are struggling to sell 30, 40 tickets a night. And it’s like, they’re playing these. 400 cap room, 500 cap rooms, and it’s empty. And I’ve been, I’ve been seeing this, uh, and hearing this, uh, have you experienced that? What do you look for in kind of these, these acts that maybe are, are being, you know, are the priority ones and they, they looks like they’re social media and they’re streaming numbers are very impressive. Uh, sure. What is your layer deeper that you go.
Jordan: There is no right or wrong answer to that. First of all, and there is no way to predict it. So let me preface there. Um, I hear you on the. Sometimes they’re not worth any tickets if they have numbers, but what I will do is go dial in on where are those numbers coming from? Are they coming from here? Cause if they are, there may be an exception to that, right? Mm. So that is, I will go look at the streaming markets and what your top 10 are and how many, how many listeners are in this market? Yeah, because there are artists who exist that had millions of followers or streams, but they may only have a thousand people listening in LA. Right. Mm. Um, so that those exists, um, I think tech talk, you know, is also. Player in that, that, you know, a lot of people assume, Hey, this, this artist is absolutely popping off on tick TikTok. And they very well may be, but they’re not worth shit in ticket sales yet. Right. Maybe they will be. Yeah. Um, but they’re not yet. So I will go look at as one. Are they performing anywhere yet? Is this their first show? Is, is this our first tour? Have they been support with anyone? Have they played this market? Mm-hmm . And try to also go find what is their show like? So go try to go find some sort of live video of them performing too. Just like, like, even if there is nothing else to back this up, besides their socials, like maybe they haven’t even released music yet or not a lot. Mm-hmm um, Are people paying attention and engaging with them. And I’ll go look at that too. Ultimately, it’s also a gut feeling. How do I feel about this? I, I would like to say that I have great music tastes, so, and ???? ???? ???? ???? ???? ???? ???? ???? ???? ???? ???? do have been pretty good about that gut feeling. I’ve been wrong 1000%, but I’m more often right than I am wrong when it comes down to that. Um, which maybe that’s how I got here. I don’t know. um, but for the most part, I will. There’s not many cases that come my way that are in that position. Um, okay. There are a few and gotcha. If I book something that the onsold. and we’re seeing this like being a product of that. What can we do to change that? Mm-hmm what can we do to push the shadow of the show and help this artist who we may believe can get there and just hasn’t yet? Yeah. To make this better. So the, you know, that’s, I will say being a marketer before I was a buyer. Mm. That is, that is helped me, um, with communicating about. Being able to dial in with my marketer and kind of, Hey, this is what I would do. This is what I think let’s go this route. And I, I will pretty much every time get on a marketing call to dial in on something like that, too. Um, to be a part of that conversation.
Ari: Cool. And, and so let’s talk a little bit about marketing. Uh, what do you do? What does the Troubadour do to help market the shows?
Jordan: Sure. So our budget’s small, um, it’s pretty much less than a thousand dollars per show. Okay. obviously our newsletter number is pretty large. Mm-hmm um, obviously we run, um, social media ads, just like pretty much any other venue is going to mm-hmm um, and then outside of that, the grassroot stuff is, you know, we always want video. Video is still king, especially a video that’s like. Engaging with fans. So I’m gonna ask for a shout out video from the artist pretty much every time. Okay. We, if we have tickets left itself. Cool. Um, cause why not? Cause most of the time artists are totally down to say, Hey, I got a show at the Trador coming up. I want you there. Right? Yep. Um, we are starting to explore TikTok. Um, we haven’t totally done that yet. Um, it’s literally in the works in these last week or two. Okay. Um, so we’re gonna explore that route and just see what kind of engagement we can get there. Sure. Especially with artists who are active on TikTok, mm-hmm, , we’re gonna see how we can support their and vice versa. Um, if we can get personalized videos going up there, um, for shows, because you know, the younger audiences are engaged. Yeah. Um, they’re not necessarily maybe seeing those Facebook and Instagram ads anymore. I think we’re seeing that start to change. Um, otherwise we have a street team. We hit pretty much. Every side of town, um, mostly with calendar ads at this point, there’s just not enough. What does that mean? Calendar ads, meaning here’s everything that’s coming up this month or ah, next two months versus so contributor’s one show with all the different, uh, acts coming up this month. And then we’ll set up, you know, giveaways with Ava or. If, if do we do like the dial in on this, especially if an artist lives here, Hey, where are your favorite spots to go? Can we connect with them and see if they want to host a giveaway or help promote this show too? Um, so we’ll do a little bit of that. And then also we’ve. Been doing some ticket hides lately, too fun. Um, which is just another way to engage a little bit.
Ari: Um, oh, did you do that with, uh, Charlie Hickey? Uh, show that he did that I saw he’s a friend of mine and, and, um, known him since he was playing Ginga, uh, Cohen, uh, like way back with Phoebe Bridgers, like, like eight years. I have like a tank yet to see a show in there. I just didn’t ate there one day with a friend. I gotta go see a show in there. I had no idea.
Jordan: I think it’s so cool. It’s, it’s very tiny. It’s, it’s very fun, but there’s a lot of history there and, uh, it’s cool. It’s cool. You know, that catching Charlie and Phoebe there back in the day, and then, you know, them obviously will Phoebe exploding, you know? Yeah. Her, her lifting Charlie up as well, which is amazing. Um, I’m a big Phoebe stand, um, and everything. She Touche. So I love it all.
Ari: Totally, totally. I, uh, for some insider baseball knowledge, um, I play a temple gig twice a month with Charlie’s mom and, uh, wow. Yeah, I’ve been doing this for the last nine years. And so like, you know, not eight, nine years ago, she’s like, oh, you want to come see my son? Uh, he’s 14. I’m just like, sure. Whatever, why not? And it was that Kingus Cohen and I. One, your son is fucking incredible. He was writing better songs at 14 than I could ever dream of writing in my entire life. Yeah. And then Phoebe was up there too. And I discovered that, you know, both of them and she was 19 at the time. And I was like, I bought both of their, uh, records on band camp that night. Cuz that’s all they have. And some like, you know, four or five songs. I love that things on band camp and I still have ’em, um, which they’ve been down and then has been fun to kind of see that grow. From that, but yeah, it’s a amazing, it’s a fun, fun room. Uh, you know, it’s lot of, lot of history there. Cool. Um, so yeah, the ticket hides, um, that’s, that’s fun. That’s, uh, you know, it’s, it’s something that, uh, I, I feel like we, we sometimes forget the out of home, the, the physical marketing realm and like some of those like scavenger hunting things, some of like outside the box, creative marketing tactics. We’ll get people talking and is actually, can be even more effective, uh, than spending a bunch of money on, uh, Facebook ads or something. You’re right.
Jordan: And you know, we’re constantly trying to think of more ideas like that to engage with and just, you know, and it’s another content piece you can posting about too. So it’s just like, it’s all correlated. And, um, obviously there’s an advantage here because so many artists I do play the room ultimately live in LA too, so sure. That’s helpful. Yeah. Yeah.
Ari: Um, so I have, uh, a question for you that, um, I’m curious, well, one, what outside promoters do you have? Do you bring in and what goes no, you’re shaking your head. No. Well, let me, let me rephrase that. Um, Mm, I’m looking at the calendar and there’s, uh, this Kelly MC welcomes. Okay. Night let’s talk that.
Jordan: Sure. So that is a, there are a couple, there are a couple of local people that the Tribu door has longstanding relationships with. Mm-hmm that if we have a, if we have a, if we have a show, if we have a date, we need to help Phil, we will reach out to mm-hmm um, and they have, you know, a relationship that exceeds me and they’re close with the owners and they’re the only people that they will allow to, to help look the room outside of myself. Ah, um, and that’s it. Okay. But as far as proper promoters and promoter deals, they do not happen in our room.
Ari: Right. Okay. That, that’s interesting. Yeah, because there, you know, she falls into the category, which. Has given the sunset strip and a lot of these legacy venues, a challenging, um, uh, name, I guess, feeling when it comes to pay to play. Um, you know, those shows in particular, I’m, I’m looking at the bands that are playing these, this show this week. And, you know, they’re all selling tickets through their event, bright through their own event. Through their Instagram bios. And I’ve like, I’ve investigated this in the past. And I’ve like DMed with them and hit ’em up and even like contacted Kelly. And it’s kind of like this, uh, it’s like the pay to play. It’s like, you gotta, you gotta sell a certain number of tickets and then they’re gonna, you know, if you’re on the hook for that number of tickets and it’s like Kelly doing these deals and whatever, and like, you know, it was it’s, it’s something that, you know, fortunately, I hadn’t really seen at the Tribu door. Um, but I’d seen at the whiskey and the Viper and you know, all of these other rooms that it’s kind of like gave the strip, it, it, it took a turn and it was like the last 10, 15 years. Um, it was kind of like, yeah, I’m not going to the whiskey anymore. I’m not gonna go to the Viper room anymore. It’s just become that where it’s like, mm-hmm, let me throw five bands on a night. They have nothing to do with each other. Everybody it is hit it and quit it. And it’s kind of like, and it doesn’t feel great for artists too, being friends with so many artists when it’s like, they’re. Shaken down by promoters who are just like, you know, essentially staying at the doors, like, get, didn’t sell 50 tickets. You gotta gimme some money before you get on sale. You know, like that kind of stuff, which is like, what is your take on this pay to play, uh, concept here.
Jordan: Let me, let me do preface with, I don’t work with Kelly. She works with the owner. Um, so that does not run through me. Um, sure. But my understanding is who does play the room with her? Are correlated in some way. And it’s more seen as like a showcasing opportunity with her. Sure. And I don’t know what she does at other rooms straight up. I do not, I can’t comment on that. Um, I haven’t been to any of her shows elsewhere. I don’t know what that is like. Yeah. Um, I do have, I do know what you’re talking about, and I have heard that about the sunset strip and what’s happened. And, and that, that is heartbreaking and that is not something I am a part of or whatever. Right. Participate in. And it’s not something our room does either. She just has a longstanding relationship with the room in general and with the owner and how that changes. I feel like we’re doing less and less than that. And we will probably continue to do less and less than that. Cause quite frankly, We don’t really need help filling our room for the most part, for sure. Right. Sure. Um, so I really can’t speak to it a lot because I, I don’t, I don’t, I’m not involved. Yeah. Just to be straight up. It’s it’s not a part of my job and what I book at the room at all.
Ari: Well, that’s, that’s good. And that’s nice to hear. Yeah. Um, I, you know, I get my, you know, the, the, the red flags and the, and the alarm bells start to go off whenever I see these kind of, you know, local promoters that are in extreme air quotes, uh, right now. Cause you know, as an artist, um, well, someone who started as an artist and moved here, 12 years ago, uh, to LA and was getting hit up by every, uh, quote unquote local promoter, uh, who, you know, would pitch me, oh, you wanna play this back in the day? You know, you wanna play the house of blues. You wanna play the whiskey, you wanna play the VI room? Whoa, here’s the deal, man. And it’s like, oh, it’s disgusting. And like sketchy. It’s so sketchy. Yeah. And like every, you know, younger artist. is, you know, not that experienced. It’s like, oh my gosh, I get to play the Troubadour. Holy shit. Right? Yeah. What, like, whatever you need from me. Thank you so much. Yeah. Oh my gosh. You’re amazing. Like, yes, I’ll pay you every, all the money in my bank account. If I can step on that state, you know, it’s like, so I it’s very predatory and I’ve spent the better part of the last 10 years calling out a lot of these pay to play promoters on A’s take and on digital music news and like, yeah. You know, I, every legitimate promoter. And talent buyer that I’ve ever spoken to. We don’t do that. No, no, you don’t do that. And like, and, and agents too, and, and promoters, they don’t put up with it. No. So it’s like every artist that’s listening to this right now is like, this is another opportunity for me to be like, yo, uh, you don’t need to pay to play. If anyone approaches you, no matter what they call themselves, no matter what venue they say, they’re booking. Run the other way. Don’t work with them because if you are worth those tickets, if you can sell those tickets, you do fill that run exactly. Then you can do it. I totally agree.
Jordan: I totally agree. And I, again, it. I I coming from Nashville. I didn’t hear about that happening ever. So when I got here and started to hear about that a little bit, because I was like, oh, I wanna go see the whiskey. And I wanna go see the PRI. And someone was like, honestly, it’s not like it was, and this is what happens in there now. And I was like, yeah, what, why? Yeah. And also, how are those people who are working in those rooms fulfilled knowing that that’s what’s happening? At this point.
Ari: Oof. I, they are of a Byon era. Uh, I’ve dealt with a lot of them. Yeah. And I’ve, you know, gotten into it with a lot of them because like, I, you know, I’ve built my reputation as someone who will call people out. I don’t give. Fuck. Like, I’m like, if you are, if you are taking advantage of artists, independent artists and musicians. Yeah. And you’re like praying on artists, like I will call you out and try to shut that down. Um, but like it’s, they are of a bygone era. A lot of them are washed up from the eighties. A lot of them, um, these, you know, it’s like, that’s the whiskey and the VI, you know, heyday was the eighties. Um, and granted the, the history there is incredible. I mean, you know, the doors and like it’s from the sixties and seventies and like, it’s. It is of a bygone era and it’s kind of like it’s the, the philosophy is or why they’re okay with it and, and how they are able to, you know, come to terms with it is they just believe like this is just how it goes and how it is, and you have to pay your dues and I’m helping you. Showcase, uh, and I’m helping you get into these rooms and I’m the gatekeeper. And it’s like, there’s, there’s too many other,
Jordan: there’s too many other opportunities elsewhere where you don’t have to do that. Or I’d say you might even have more success as far as overall long term than totally you go playing that one show because this person’s pitching to you. Also, if a person has to pitch to you like that, I would say that’s a red flag in itself.
Ari: Oh man. I should just show you some of these emails that these local artists it is. ENT. It is nonstop of just like, you know, they send the dates. Like I could book you at this room and I could book you here and I got you here. And this date is open for me. And it’s like, it’s nuts. And, uh, yeah, it is a very predatory practice. Um, and, uh, but that’s, well, if you have one that is related to my, my welcome it. I will, I will pass away to challenge that situation. all good. Um, so, well, um, let me see here. Oh, I’m curious. Uh, when it comes to, um, the, um, Just a quick, I, I was, I saw this meme that went around Instagram and, and I guess it was just like this, this statement about, um, the, uh, merch cut when it comes to, you know, that what is your slash the trios philosophy or model when it comes to taking a, a cut of the band’s merch sales? You know, this is something because of this. Cuz I did read, you know, the story that went along this, with that meme and how it happened. And I do agree to an extent we never take more than 15%. That’s our standard.
Jordan: Okay. Um, of every act that comes through. Yeah. And we only take, we only take a Mer cut on hard. I mean on soft, not hard. Sorry. Recorded. Not recorded. Yes. Never recorded at all. Uhhuh. Um, For us personally. Um, I think it’s tough because there are nights where that does mean something to us where. You’re an act who is not bringing, is bringing everyone under the age of 21, cuz we’re in all ages room. Mm. All, all, basically every show at the Trador is all ages. There might be one once in a blue moon mm-hmm but for the most part, every show is all ages mm-hmm so that merch cut can mean something to us where we’re not making shit on the bar. Sure. So that is where it becomes a. I still need that I’m in independent room. No, one’s backing me. Yeah. At all. Um, so that does help my bottom line. However, a promoter or a larger room where, or room that’s never gonna have an all LA to show. I do think that’s an exception and I have seen that exception made too. Um, the exception of. A hundred percent to artists on. Okay. Okay. Okay. Um, or, or 10 or 10 or we’re on second, 10% cut or whatever. Mm-hmm lower percentage. Um, I do think it’s crazy when I hear about clubs who are taking more than 15% on March. To me, that is the max that should be allowed. Um, I’m not gonna speak to arenas and to Hills, that is a whole nother ballgame. I can’t speak on that because it also comes down to their deal and you know that promoter’s not touching the bar, et cetera. so I don’t know if there is a blanket answer to that. Mm-hmm I do think it could be something that could be gone through deal by deal and show by show, which sometimes happens with me. I’m not gonna say that there aren’t shows where we give a hundred percent on March, cuz there are, and it happens mm-hmm mm-hmm I have, we have kind of some internal rules to that on well, the ticket prices and what type of show it is. And so it’s, it’s looked at, um, so I don’t think there’s a blanket answer, but I do think it’s a conversation that’s worth having. If it’s needed. And I do hear, you know, those acts that Hey, 50 bucks meets a lot to us, especially a support act who’s making, you know. Yeah. For me, pretty much, no support act makes less than two 50, but you know, there there’s. Rooms where you make a hundred, 200 bucks and they still collect merch, which yeah, I can totally see that. And I think that is something we should change as an industry overall. Mm-hmm I agree. Cool.
Ari: Yeah, that’s great. So that’s great. Um, okay, cool. Uh, so where you, uh, kind of moving forward, what is the Troubadour, um, you know, what are you looking to for the future? Um, and kind of, uh, over the coming year.
Jordan: Well, we are so busy this fall, um, as we noted on. Um, and I’m, I mean, I’m looking heavy into 20, 23 as far out as into the summer. Okay. At the moment. Um, and yeah, you know, I think the focus is still trying to get back to that normal that we’re all looking for. Yeah. Um, I do think we’re taking steps together, but you know, trying to navigate in the world, that’s still really weird. Um, you’re gonna. Continue to see the underplays pop up. Sure. Um, and the big, um, you know, the big baby bands that are about to pop off, you’ll still see us get those and they’ll still be popping off. I will say the one we have this week that I commented on, um, for Tuesday, the Scarlet opera, those guys sold the show out and they don’t have any music. Wow. Oh my God. There. Yeah. It is a huge exception to the rules that we all know. And at hereby and I was thorough thoroughly impressed by the show as well. Um, cool. He’s like a guy, his, his name’s Luca. I would. You know, relate him to Freddie mercury. Like it was a bad as show. Yeah, it was cool. So we out for that. So is, are they local or how do they, yeah, they’re local without music out. They’re local. They are a part of scooter, bros management. Uh, um, he got a placement on, um, I believe love island. And that’s like the one song people knew in the RI to sing that was the song, but they knew it. They all knew it, all the words mm-hmm and I was like, I don’t know a song I heard on a TV show and never heard again. Like what? Um, yeah, they’re just about to release their first couple songs, I believe. Um, mm-hmm yeah. I don’t know if there’s a plan for touring up, but I’ll look out for them. That was a insane show.
Ari: Oh my God. Wait a. Okay. They’ve changed their name. This is funny. I know who you’re talking about. You wanna get, you wanna know something about Scarlet opera and, uh, Luca, I know he was in an older band, but apparently this band is completely different, but yes. Okay. Yeah, but I mean, he’s a, he’s an incredible, he’s a phenomenal, uh, front front band. Um, and yeah, Freddie murky is a great comparison. I mean, he’s, this, this guy is, is amazing. Um, I’ve I actually saw him play the Troubadour. With a different project. This was probably four years ago. I, I think I was on a bill with him maybe four or five years ago, but anyway, he used to be my barista at Starbucks. Uh, oh my God. I love that Luca. So every day I would go to Starbucks and he would give me coffee. So that’s how we got to know each other. And then I remember the day that he quit, uh, And, um, I was like, where where’s Luca and, and then like, oh, well he just got signed a scooter bronze management company. So he quit I was like, okay, that makes sense, you know, statement.
Jordan: But you know, what I will say is those guys, this was a complete one off those guys. Built this show from the ground up and had a vision and they put that vision and did that show mm-hmm I did a walkthrough with him and he was like, you know, saying all this stuff you wanted to do on stage or whatever. So then when we got today a show and I walked into the room, the lights were low and they had the product, you know, their stage production set. I was like, wow, they built all of this themselves. They, wow. They put like this really cool, um, backdrop up. It was. Not aluminum, but long sheets of aluminum and then made it with the blue light on it and made it look kind of like ice. But the, the theme of the night was opera. So they had a vial on open and they had a burlesque dancer. Cool. And they built, they built a chandelier. That’s spun over them over the stage that they just made themselves. And I was like, you don’t see that happen too often. I think that’s so cool. So respect to them. It was an amazing show. So cool. You know, Everyone showed up.
Ari: Amazing. That’s so great. Yeah. Well, Jordan, this has been so great. Thank you so much for taking the time. Um, I know how busy you are. Uh, I have one final question that I ask everyone who comes on the show and that is what does it mean to you to make it in the New Music Business? Yes.
Jordan: I love the question. Um, for me personally, I think being a woman and a queer woman in the music industry and honestly, I, I see drawbacks that some of my peers go through and I personally have not, and have been very lucky. Um, what triggered that thought for me was when I worked in that AEG office in Nashville, it was primarily female and primarily queer. And I was like, this is the music industry. I wanna be a part of. So seeing that pan out and continue happen is fucking awesome to me. And also, you know, getting to where I am now. Um, It feels great. It feels awesome. I still get that feeling and the pit ???? of my stomach when I see a show like Tuesday playoff and get excited. And that’s what success means to me, for sure.
Ari: Incredible. Jordan Anderson. Thank you so much. That was great. Thank you.
